Wednesday, November 22, 2006
False Ecumenism
(Adapted & edited from The Unamalgamated Inquistor)
There is no true ecumenism when it reaches the point that we will lose our identity as LATIN-RITE ROMAN CATHOLICS. When we have to give praise to the leaders of certain religions or protestant denominations. To the point of being able to say that they are good and that we can learn from them. Sorry, but Jesus Christ, the ‘Rabbi of Nazareth’ is the greatest teacher we have. He is the supreme giver of all wisdom and does so through his Vicar here on earth. To say that we can learn from other religions- who out rightly denounce him as Lord and Savior- would be an insult to his Sovereign Majesty.
Can we really say that Martin Luther, the first reformer did well by ‘waking up’ the Church? An excommunicated person who split the unity of Christendom- a good person? Luther was a heretic. For over 500 years, many Devout Catholic Scriptural commentators have seen John’s revelation in Apocalypse 9:1-3 as a prediction of Luther and his Protestant revolt. The whole description of the locusts fits down to the last detail the kings and princes who established by force the heresy of the 16th Century:
“And the fifth Angel sounded the trumpet; and I saw a star fall from Heaven upon
the earth. And to him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the
bottomless pit: and the smoke of the pit ascended as the smoke of a great
furnace; and the sun was darkened, and the air with the smoke of the pit: And
from the smoke of the pit, there came out locusts upon the earth, and power was
given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.”
Saint Teresa of Avila called Lutheranism "that wretched sect," and established her first Carmelite foundation of nuns at Avila to help “cure this terrible evil” by bringing “some comfort to our Lord”, “thus,” said Saint Teresa, “being all of us employed in interceding for the champions of the Church and the preachers and theologians who defend her, we might, to our utmost, aid this Lord of mine Who is attacked with such cruelty ...”
But who cares what Saint Teresa thinks. For ecumenical, modernist Catholics, dancing on the graves of the saints is a necessary ritual of their new religion. Protestantism was the Death Knell of Christendom back in the Middle Ages; false ecumenism will be the Catholic Church's today.
The Protestant revolt tore away millions of souls from the one true Church of Christ, and probable consignment of millions to eternal hellfire.
Can we call ourselves Catholics if we say that all religions are good and it is not necessary for one to become Catholic in order to be saved?
Practices of churches that would have been labeled 'heretics' and 'pagans' in a less pretentious era have crept into our Churches. Things like “Living Stone Cell Group Meetings” and rock music during a solemn Mass. This shows a complete disregard for Catholic Tradition. To say Martin Luther awoke the church from its slumber during the middle ages by starting the reformation is like saying Judas Iscariot is a saint because he betrayed Our Lord so that our Lord could be glorified in Calvary. Are we Roman Catholics or are we Gnostics in disguise?
Not to kill or hate a non-Catholic is religious tolerance. To try to convert a non-Catholic, that is ecumenism. To compromise doctrine and dilute tradition so that it becomes pleasing to the non-believer, that is selling out authentic Catholicism, and this is many priests and laity are beginning to say. What did the English martyrs during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I die for? They died for the True Religion and not the diluted, watered down version which is Anglicanism.
So what’s next? Will King Henry VIII be the patron saint of Chastity? Attila, the Prince of peace? For the sake of orthodoxy, restore Tradition!
But who cares what Saint Teresa thinks. For ecumenical, modernist Catholics, dancing on the graves of the saints is a necessary ritual of their new religion. Protestantism was the Death Knell of Christendom back in the Middle Ages; false ecumenism will be the Catholic Church's today.
The Protestant revolt tore away millions of souls from the one true Church of Christ, and probable consignment of millions to eternal hellfire.
Can we call ourselves Catholics if we say that all religions are good and it is not necessary for one to become Catholic in order to be saved?
Practices of churches that would have been labeled 'heretics' and 'pagans' in a less pretentious era have crept into our Churches. Things like “Living Stone Cell Group Meetings” and rock music during a solemn Mass. This shows a complete disregard for Catholic Tradition. To say Martin Luther awoke the church from its slumber during the middle ages by starting the reformation is like saying Judas Iscariot is a saint because he betrayed Our Lord so that our Lord could be glorified in Calvary. Are we Roman Catholics or are we Gnostics in disguise?
Not to kill or hate a non-Catholic is religious tolerance. To try to convert a non-Catholic, that is ecumenism. To compromise doctrine and dilute tradition so that it becomes pleasing to the non-believer, that is selling out authentic Catholicism, and this is many priests and laity are beginning to say. What did the English martyrs during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I die for? They died for the True Religion and not the diluted, watered down version which is Anglicanism.
So what’s next? Will King Henry VIII be the patron saint of Chastity? Attila, the Prince of peace? For the sake of orthodoxy, restore Tradition!
Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice,
Deo Juvante
Feast of St. Cecilia, Virgin & Martyr
Feast of St. Cecilia, Virgin & Martyr
Labels: Eucmenism, Thoughts, Traditionalism
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Yes, one day we shall have good music in Mass, not 'Jesus is my boyfriend'.
St Cecillia, pray for us.
(btw, i noticed that you have linked me. i will also, in reciprocity. =)
St Cecillia, pray for us.
(btw, i noticed that you have linked me. i will also, in reciprocity. =)
Hey, this article is extremely familiar - from unamalgamated-inquisitor.blogspot.com ,right?
# posted by 
: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:24:00 PM
: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:24:00 PM
Whoa, im most flattered by this.
Your most welcome to use any part of my blog as a tool to combat falsities and heresies! Though some credit might be nice...
Stay unamalagamated!
Your most welcome to use any part of my blog as a tool to combat falsities and heresies! Though some credit might be nice...
Stay unamalagamated!
Hi, I was meaning to put up the acknowledgements but got carried away when thinking about all the problems in our Church. Sorry about that.
Ian,
Also on the music... Vat2 never removed Gregorian Chant. Let us pray for this to be restored in our Churches. Novus Ordo liturgy can be very beautiful; it's just that no one is taking any effort in making it happen.
Also on the music... Vat2 never removed Gregorian Chant. Let us pray for this to be restored in our Churches. Novus Ordo liturgy can be very beautiful; it's just that no one is taking any effort in making it happen.
I will deemed that the Novus Ordo Mass, when celebrated properly and correctly, is a valid Mass. But to the extent to say that it is beautiful, I won't say so.
All the Novus Ordo Masses that I have been to, I have no recollection of anything striking, except for the rampant and blatant sacrileges and abuses committed. Oh! And perhaps the songs for Mass of the Creation, composed by a... Lutheran, the very sect which gives rise to Protestantism, that the Society of Jesus fought so vallantly, dying for the Holy Faith, the Faith of the Fathers. 'Holy! Holy! Holy Lord! God of Power, God of Might!...'
The only beautiful thing I remembered is the rare occasions where gregorian chants are sang.
From what I read on your blog, you seem to profess allegiance to the Tridentine Mass too. So, by saying that the Novus Ordo Mass can be beautiful, aren't you saying that you put both Rites on par? That is to say, even though you have the knowledge of the problems of the Second Vatican Council and also the Protestant corruption of the Novus Ordo Mass, you are still condoning to the problems, to the very heart of of the Catholic Faith, the Holy Mass.
No doubt it may be a valid Mass. Again, it seems that you proclaim your respect and honor, even perhaps you loyalty to a certain extent, to the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. He already says that, even though it is a valid Mass, a valid Sacrament, as long as it is celebrated properly in the Latin version, it is still doubtful. More damning is that they changed the very words of our Lord. No doubt the Holy See had corrected the pro multis in the translation of the ICEL, but the Mass in English is so protestant that, even if you feel and know that it is the Sacrifice of the Cross re-enacted, the liturgy in the re-enactment itself is corrupted, the prayers changed.
It is a New Rite altogether, if not a New Church. To profess your allegiance to the Tridentine Mass, you denounce the corruption of the liturgy of the Novus Ordo Mass (not the Sacrament, if celebrated properly), and if you proclaim your loyalty to the Novus Ordo Mass and condone the errors of the Second Vatican Council, you are indirectly abandoning the more than 1900 years of the Church's Tradition and history.
All the Novus Ordo Masses that I have been to, I have no recollection of anything striking, except for the rampant and blatant sacrileges and abuses committed. Oh! And perhaps the songs for Mass of the Creation, composed by a... Lutheran, the very sect which gives rise to Protestantism, that the Society of Jesus fought so vallantly, dying for the Holy Faith, the Faith of the Fathers. 'Holy! Holy! Holy Lord! God of Power, God of Might!...'
The only beautiful thing I remembered is the rare occasions where gregorian chants are sang.
From what I read on your blog, you seem to profess allegiance to the Tridentine Mass too. So, by saying that the Novus Ordo Mass can be beautiful, aren't you saying that you put both Rites on par? That is to say, even though you have the knowledge of the problems of the Second Vatican Council and also the Protestant corruption of the Novus Ordo Mass, you are still condoning to the problems, to the very heart of of the Catholic Faith, the Holy Mass.
No doubt it may be a valid Mass. Again, it seems that you proclaim your respect and honor, even perhaps you loyalty to a certain extent, to the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. He already says that, even though it is a valid Mass, a valid Sacrament, as long as it is celebrated properly in the Latin version, it is still doubtful. More damning is that they changed the very words of our Lord. No doubt the Holy See had corrected the pro multis in the translation of the ICEL, but the Mass in English is so protestant that, even if you feel and know that it is the Sacrifice of the Cross re-enacted, the liturgy in the re-enactment itself is corrupted, the prayers changed.
It is a New Rite altogether, if not a New Church. To profess your allegiance to the Tridentine Mass, you denounce the corruption of the liturgy of the Novus Ordo Mass (not the Sacrament, if celebrated properly), and if you proclaim your loyalty to the Novus Ordo Mass and condone the errors of the Second Vatican Council, you are indirectly abandoning the more than 1900 years of the Church's Tradition and history.
# posted by : Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:16:00 AM
: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:16:00 AM
Dear Anon,
I do not profess an allegiance to the Tridentine Mass. I profess allengiance to the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church that is the present visible Church of Rome. And I do so not because I am bound to as Catholic, but because I also profess my faith our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Yes, I may enjoy the Tridentine Mass and appreciate the beauty the rite but neither can I say that because of this I should abandon the Novus Ordo. Once again, the question of allegiance arises, if we profess to be with Rome we should accept what Rome tells us.
It is true that we may not agree with everything but we should not be condenming. Although I don't agree with Rome on communion on hand, etc... I don't doubt Rome's authority to 'legalize' it.
What I do is try to share my opinions to help people understand that they can carry on receiving communion on tongue etc... I write to voice my displeasure with communion on the hand... But do I call Rome evil? Do I critize the Supreme Legislator that is the Pope? No.
Perhaps you are right when you said that both rights are not on par. Perhaps, here's a better more simpler way to put it: the Novus Ordo can be beautiful but even the most beautiful celebration of the Novus Ordo cannot match up to the least beautiful celebration of the Tridentine Mass.
I don't proclaim any loyalty or allegiance to any rite of Mass. My fealty is with the Church of Rome. So if Rome says that from tomorrow onwards all priests are to cleebrate the Ambrosian Rite of Mass, I'll obey. Although I'll voice my displeasue, I won't critize or condemn the move.
I do not profess an allegiance to the Tridentine Mass. I profess allengiance to the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church that is the present visible Church of Rome. And I do so not because I am bound to as Catholic, but because I also profess my faith our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Yes, I may enjoy the Tridentine Mass and appreciate the beauty the rite but neither can I say that because of this I should abandon the Novus Ordo. Once again, the question of allegiance arises, if we profess to be with Rome we should accept what Rome tells us.
It is true that we may not agree with everything but we should not be condenming. Although I don't agree with Rome on communion on hand, etc... I don't doubt Rome's authority to 'legalize' it.
What I do is try to share my opinions to help people understand that they can carry on receiving communion on tongue etc... I write to voice my displeasure with communion on the hand... But do I call Rome evil? Do I critize the Supreme Legislator that is the Pope? No.
Perhaps you are right when you said that both rights are not on par. Perhaps, here's a better more simpler way to put it: the Novus Ordo can be beautiful but even the most beautiful celebration of the Novus Ordo cannot match up to the least beautiful celebration of the Tridentine Mass.
I don't proclaim any loyalty or allegiance to any rite of Mass. My fealty is with the Church of Rome. So if Rome says that from tomorrow onwards all priests are to cleebrate the Ambrosian Rite of Mass, I'll obey. Although I'll voice my displeasue, I won't critize or condemn the move.
If we were to seperate ourselves from the Church because we "have no recollection of anything striking, except for the rampant and blatant sacrileges and abuses committed" then wouldn't we be like Luther himself?
Renewal must come from within. The Church is not perfect but together we'll grow.
Renewal must come from within. The Church is not perfect but together we'll grow.
The word here is 'striking'.
The very fact that there is nothing which I can remembered from after attending the time-honoured Tridentine Latin Mass shows something.
Depends on how you define the word 'grow'. To grow back to Tradition, or to grow towards Neo-Modernism.
'If we separate ourselves from the Church...' So you reckon all who attends the Tridentine Latin Mass only is in schism, or do you even think there is a possibility that they are heretics?
And so, by that last post, I supposed that when it rids off of its sacrileges and abuses, you will give your (full) support to the Novus Ordo Mass?
The very fact that there is nothing which I can remembered from after attending the time-honoured Tridentine Latin Mass shows something.
Depends on how you define the word 'grow'. To grow back to Tradition, or to grow towards Neo-Modernism.
'If we separate ourselves from the Church...' So you reckon all who attends the Tridentine Latin Mass only is in schism, or do you even think there is a possibility that they are heretics?
And so, by that last post, I supposed that when it rids off of its sacrileges and abuses, you will give your (full) support to the Novus Ordo Mass?
# posted by : Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:51:00 AM
: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:51:00 AM
well, here's a comment from a different anonymous person.
Da Fidei Quae Fidei Sunt:
What about the phrase "Error has no rights?" - St Vincent Lerins in the 5th Century.
So you say the N.O. has something wrong but you say that it's right? No doubt the validity of the mass is there because also the Pope celebrates it, but how about the protestant spirit that arises from such masses that has misled many and I emphasize very many in the true faith, after VATII, after such horrific scandals?
There is a question also about obedience.
You profess to be obedient to Rome, but such blind obedience is not tantamount to true faith. You cannot just say yes when it's wrong.
We live in troubled times and we have to be right, in what we profess, in order to be sane.
Da Fidei Quae Fidei Sunt:
What about the phrase "Error has no rights?" - St Vincent Lerins in the 5th Century.
So you say the N.O. has something wrong but you say that it's right? No doubt the validity of the mass is there because also the Pope celebrates it, but how about the protestant spirit that arises from such masses that has misled many and I emphasize very many in the true faith, after VATII, after such horrific scandals?
There is a question also about obedience.
You profess to be obedient to Rome, but such blind obedience is not tantamount to true faith. You cannot just say yes when it's wrong.
We live in troubled times and we have to be right, in what we profess, in order to be sane.
# posted by : Monday, November 27, 2006 12:48:00 PM
: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:48:00 PM
o and btw, it does not mean that by following, albeit, not blindy, we are against the Pope. Definitely not against the Holy Pope.
# posted by : Monday, November 27, 2006 12:52:00 PM
: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:52:00 PM
Paul,
I see that you are also getting a lot of flak from anonymous commenters. I too don't concur with your sympathetic opinions on the Novus Ordo, but I want you to know you are not alone; my blog was once bombarded by countless anonymous commenters as well, and I fully know what it feels like to be fighting a battle *alone*.
I also want to say that I did not leave any of those anonymous comments above! This may seem like I am stating the obvious, but some incredibly stupid people might jump at it and accuse me because my MSN nickname has been (and still is) "Error has no rights", a quote mentioned by one of the anonymous commenters. I rather be safe than sorry, and nip it in the bud.
I see that you are also getting a lot of flak from anonymous commenters. I too don't concur with your sympathetic opinions on the Novus Ordo, but I want you to know you are not alone; my blog was once bombarded by countless anonymous commenters as well, and I fully know what it feels like to be fighting a battle *alone*.
I also want to say that I did not leave any of those anonymous comments above! This may seem like I am stating the obvious, but some incredibly stupid people might jump at it and accuse me because my MSN nickname has been (and still is) "Error has no rights", a quote mentioned by one of the anonymous commenters. I rather be safe than sorry, and nip it in the bud.
hello paul,
some of your views, I do not agree with you too!
but I'd like to say that the online debate is enriching and what are your views regarding them? Talking about it helps I think!
Let us all pray for the His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI and let us pray that he will free up the tridentine mass of All Times and that there will be the return of the Social Kingship of Christ the King and also the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Prayer Helps! Let us Storm the Heavens!
All the best and God Bless.
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some of your views, I do not agree with you too!
but I'd like to say that the online debate is enriching and what are your views regarding them? Talking about it helps I think!
Let us all pray for the His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI and let us pray that he will free up the tridentine mass of All Times and that there will be the return of the Social Kingship of Christ the King and also the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Prayer Helps! Let us Storm the Heavens!
All the best and God Bless.
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